Episode 53: Can Virginia curb Dominion Energy's outsized influence?

For decades, Virginia lawmakers have been more likely to show deference to Dominion Energy than to challenge their power. These days, Dominion isn't just the state's biggest public utility... it's also the state's biggest corporate political donor.

Not that everybody is okay with that. For years, some progressive Democrats have called out Dominion. This year, some Republicans have found common ground with those Democrats. Republicans in the House of Delegates and Democrats in the state Senate have introduced bills that would prohibit campaign donations from public utilities. Campaign donations that have a direct through-line to Dominion's outsized influence on state policy.

In this week's episode, we speak with journalist Peter Galuszka and Clean Virginia executive director Brennan Gilmore.

Machine-generated transcript. Blame the AI for any errors.

Nathan Moore 0:00

This is Bold Dominon, a state politics explainer for changing Virginia. I'm Nathan Moore. He rumbled from one remote country store to another, and a camper equipped with loudspeakers blaring hillbilly music. He staged rallies that looked and felt more like revival 10 meetings, live music cardboard buckets for campaign offerings. And the candidate himself called on the faithful to witness with their votes and his gospel. Keep the big boys honest. I never met Henry Hill. He passed away years before I moved to Virginia. But his run for governor in 1973 is one of my favorite moments to read about in Virginia's political history. Here was the Virginia politician born and bred here in the Commonwealth, openly taking on big business banks, insurance companies and monopolies. His favorite target was Vetco. That's the Virginia Electric Power Company. And it's the company we know today as Dominion energy. Henry Howell did not win his race for governor in 1973. He lost by two points. And since that era, Virginia lawmakers are far more likely to show deference to Dominion than to take them on. These days. Dominion isn't just the state's biggest public utility. It's also the state's biggest corporate political donor. Not that everybody's okay with that. Some progressive Democrats have called out dominion for years. But you know what they say about politics and strange bedfellows. This year, some Republicans have caused to be angry with Dominion too, and they found common ground with those Democrats. They want to curb Dominions political spending and influence peddling. This year, Republicans in the House of Delegates and Democrats in the State Senate have introduced bills that would prohibit campaign donations from public utilities, campaign donations that have a direct thru line to Dominions outsized influence on state policy,

Brennan Gilmore 1:54

Through an army of lobbyists that they send to Richmond every year, through large amounts of money put into the political system, through large amounts of charitable giving, that they give in communities to buy influence as well. You've seen that they have been able to really have a iron grip on energy policy and the money that we pay for electricity.

Nathan Moore 2:16

That's Brennan Gilmore, he's the executive director over at clean Virginia. Later in the show, he explains how Dominion evolved from a public utility at the service of Virginia to a powerful corporation at the service of its shareholders. But first, Richmond based journalist Peter Galuszka gives us a quick rundown of the current bipartisan efforts to curb Dominions influence.

Nathan Moore 2:40

Peter, you know, we all know Dominion Energy, they're the biggest electric utility in the state and also for many years, the biggest corporate donor to Virginia politicians and candidates. That's been a problem for progressive Democrats for a while now. But now this year, some Republicans are also pretty mad about about Dominion's role in Virginia politics and some of their donations. Take me through what's going on and a bill that's at the General Assembly right now.

Peter Galuszka 3:05

Well, I think the bigger story is that times are a'changing. But the immediate thing that made the GOP angry was that Dominion, who generally backs Republican candidates but not always, decided to have a prank against Glenn Youngkin, the GOP candidate for governor. And supposedly they put together some kind of PAC, contributed to by some of their executives, which somehow put him in a negative light, especially when it came to Second Amendment rights. Dominion denied it, then apparently they did it. But the Republicans got really angry, because they felt in a way betrayed. So now there's actually, you know, works in the fire to have some kind of law that restricts how much Dominion can donate to politicians, but it's a real change of attitude.

Nathan Moore 3:58

So what would this you know, looking at the bill that's on the table right now, what would the bill actually do to change Dominion's spending,

Peter Galuszka 4:07

You know, it would really basically limit or ban certain types of political contributions. And remind you I mean, Dominion for years has been the single biggest political donor. And I mean, some politicians are actually able to put their children to college on it. So I mean, that's, and that's perfectly okay because it's all admitted. So this could be a change, or more of a sea change, I think in political attitudes in Virginia.

Nathan Moore 4:37

I mean, Dominion has enormous political power in the state. How did it get to where it's both the biggest donor and the most powerful force in state politics?

Peter Galuszka 4:47

Well, don't forget Virginia's a very top down state. It by nature politically wants to keep as many people out of the decision making process. It wants fewer plates set at the table. I think Another reason there are two real reasons why it became that way. One is coal. And that's because there was so much coal coming through the state from the mountains. It was a natural. And the second, I think, was a cultural thing and an engineering thing. And that is because Virginia became an early nuclear state. Why is that? Because of the Navy, the Navy invented the small nuclear reactor. And there are several places in Virginia where you could do that: Newport News and The Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Norfolk. And so you had a lot of nuclear engineers who retired, and they all went to Dominion. And they all kind of had a very tight old boys network. And I remember dealing with them back in the 70s. I mean, they really were tight. And they thought they had a little, you know, aristocracy going within an aristocracy.

Nathan Moore 5:55

And so Dominion also played its cards well, in terms of influencing politicians setting up a regulatory or non-regulatory framework so that they can really thrive and make a lot of money. And and now they've got a ton of influence across the state.

Peter Galuszka 6:10

Yeah, you do. And I mean, it's changed over the years. But it's still changing.

Nathan Moore 6:15

Tell me what does it mean that dominion, that a bill that would regulate Dominion spending, what does it mean that that bill is even being taken seriously this year? Because that's gotten nowhere in years past?

Peter Galuszka 6:24

Well, it has not. I think it's changed because I think enough people, even Amanda Chase, who's very hard, right, Republican, was very strong against coal ash. In fact, she drafted the legislation that was pretty strict on coal ash, because a lot of her constituents are really pretty angry about it. So I mean, there is a kind of I mean, this is kind of the another change that's going on besides Virginia becoming somewhat more progressive. It's just that the, a lot of the old style, Republicans are becoming more independent. And they're not part of the old boy network anymore. But it's been longtime common in states growing up too. And, as you mentioned, newcomers to the state aren't going to really cared that much about what it used to be.

Nathan Moore 7:09

I mean, Dominion still has all this power, it still has piles of money, it's still, you know, wields a lot of influence and can throw it around at the state level. But you've got some Republicans and certainly some Democrats who are standing up and saying, No, yeah, we don't wanna do that anymore. What comes next?

Peter Galuszka 7:25

Well, that's a great question. And I think the problem with that is one is a great deal of confusion. Two years ago, everything seemed, you know, as blue as a bluebird, and it isn't anymore. Dominion is sort of that it's making a change. Now, how does it make that change? That is the issue? Because I mean, you have all the usual energy things. I mean, first off, you've got to go to it when you got to go towards seller of state finally seems to be doing that in a big way. But you still have the stock gap issues. There. There are arguments about whether we should be building small, safe nukes if they exist. Coal, I mean, we still have this coal plant. And what do you do with that? And these are the kinds of things because you're talking about a technological cultural change, the corporate change and technological change, and it's just gonna be very interesting period.

Nathan Moore 8:24

Peter Galuszka is a journalist based in the Richmond area. You're listening to Bold Dominon, a state politics explainer for changing Virginia, visit us online at BoldDominon.org. I have a friend who's trying to get into state politics? Well, tell me about this show. And then subscribe. You can find us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and wherever fine podcasts are served up. While you're there. Go ahead and leave us a five star review. We love those. Bold Dominon is a member of the Virginia audio collective home to more than two dozen podcasts and hosted at WTJU 91.1 FM Community Radio Online at VirginiaAudio.org.

Nathan Moore 9:04

So we're talking about Dominion energy on this week's show. In this segment, Brenton Gilmore from clean Virginia explains how Dominion secured its iron grip on Virginia politics, and what's being proposed in the General Assembly to loosen that grip.

Brennan Gilmore 9:21

My name is Brennan Gilmore, and I am the Executive Director of Clean Virginia.

Katherine Hansen 9:25

Can you briefly explain the current bipartisan concern regarding Virginia utilities, political contributions?

Brennan Gilmore 9:33

Yeah, in an era where we have very few issues that unite the parties, you see both Democrats and Republicans in Virginia uniting to end the influence of large utility monopolies like Dominion energy in politics. The reason this is as we've seen for decades now that these utilities have been allowed to buy influence with the General Assembly in our state leaders in essentially right The laws that regulate their activities. So the General Assembly in Virginia has a very unique role, along with what we call the state corporation commission. They regulate the rates that utilities charge for the price of electricity. Most consumers in Virginia are captive customers have a monopoly, that means they don't have choice between their utilities. So it's very important when you don't have choice in a market, that the market is properly regulated. Unfortunately, Dominion energy, and others have been able to regulate themselves and in doing so overcharged by billions of dollars customers, and pursue energy policies that benefit their shareholders, but not Virginia as a state.

Katherine Hansen 10:44

So how did Dominion come to have so much power in Virginia?

Brennan Gilmore 10:48

It's a great question. electric utilities have always had a lot of power and political system. In fact, Franklin Roosevelt warned over a century ago that utilities played a very dangerous role in a political system, and that they do have monopolies. And they often have the most information about something that is essential for modern life. And so you've seen that Dominion has through an army of lobbyists that they send to Richmond every year, through large amounts of money put into the political system, through large amounts of charitable giving, that they give in communities to buy influence as well. You've seen that they have been able to really have an iron grip on energy policy and the money that we pay for electricity here in Virginia.

Katherine Hansen 11:38

So this iron grip on energy policy, how has dominion benefited from its political contributions? If you have any egregious examples,

Brennan Gilmore 11:47

there are many egregious examples the energy code in Virginia, the code of law that governs our energy policy is incredibly friendly to Dominion energy. What that means is they are essentially given money that belongs to consumers. They have written arbitrary provisions that if they overcharge Virginians, we can only get refunds up to a cap, an arbitrary cap of $50 million. That's one of the most egregious provisions in the code. That means they can charge by hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars, and you don't get any money any money back despite the fact that they are charged you. I like to use an analogy of going to buy a television or a car, any other consumer good. And you accidentally pay a few $1,000 Too much they overcharged you you realize that was a mistake. But when you go back to get the money back, the car salesman or the TV salesman says oh, I'm sorry, I'm only going to give you 50 bucks back the other 2000. I'm just gonna go ahead and keep it's an it's ridiculous. And we wouldn't stand for it in any other in any other sector. But because of the political influence of these utilities, they are allowed to get away with it. You know, we call it legalized corruption. But they essentially have looked at their customers across the state of Virginia, not as folks that they should provide a public service for, but as a as a cash cow as an ATM machine. And so their policies are, by and large, directed by an impulse to maximize value for their shareholders.

Katherine Hansen 13:15

Yeah, I read that in recent years, 2 million kept hundreds of millions of extra dollars in profit. And now there seems to be more pushback from the General Assembly against minions influence because of the advertisements put out by a PAC funded by Dominion against Governor Younkin. Why is this bipartisan support growing more now than in previous years?

Brennan Gilmore 13:33

Let me just start by saying there has always been bipartisan support for getting Dominions malign influence out of our politics, it hasn't been overwhelming. It's still not overwhelming. But it has grown remarkably, in the past few years. I think there's a few reasons for this. One is historically Dominion wasn't always as bad of an actor as they have been in the past decade. There used to be a some sort of firewall between the holding company which looked at you know, how to maximize profit and shareholder interest in the utility, which was supposed to be just providing a basic public service with some restructuring that they did in their corporate structure. About two decades ago, that firewall collapsed. And they started looking at the utility just as a money making machine. And so in doing that, in the past decade, they passed several bills, which essentially tied the hands of their regulators and stop and stop them from being able to set rates fairly. And so we saw, you know, since to it since 2015, well over $2 billion that was taken from Virginians above what the utility was owed. And as, as legislators realize this, they became you know, quite fed up. And so the numbers of legislators that that we're hearing from their constituents on this and who they themselves realized that this was a deeply unjust system. started growing. And so we've seen a, you know, a lot more support for the idea of getting their influence out of politics. The incident you mentioned, that happened in the in past years campaign for governor was Dominion funded a, essentially a dark money pack to try to hit Governor Younkin. From the right over the issue of guns. It was a dark money play, and it was funded overwhelmingly by Dominion energy, and it was funded by their top executives and lobbyists as well. And this prompted Governor Younkin to speak out very firmly against the role of Dominion energy and Virginia politics on the campaign trail. And it also angered a lot of Republicans who questioned why in the world, a electric utility was funding dark money at attacks against a Republican governor candidate. I think, you know, it's a lot of a lot of politicians when they saw this had a wake up call, because you would, again, to use another analogy, you know, you would never have your water authority or your sewer authority, or the roads authority, doing this, you know, doing these kind of dirty plays in politics. So why in the world should your electric utility be doing it either, electric utilities are supposed to be public service corporations, unfortunately, Dominion has largely abandoned the Public Service motive. And it's its responsibility is as it sees it is first and foremost, to make as much money as it can off of its captive consumers in Virginia.

Katherine Hansen 16:31

So you mentioned that Dominion has become more of a dark actor in recent years. How has policy changed over the past decade with Dominions influence,

Brennan Gilmore 16:42

the regulatory code, the amount of consumer protections we have has been decimated by Dominion lobbyists writing the code. And so the ability for the state corporation commission regulators to set fair rates for consumers has really been hit time and time again over the course of the past decade. And then we've seen that in any case, where we have to have legislation that permits large infrastructure projects, you've seen Dominion maximize the cost of these projects. So there are there are good, consumer friendly ways to build new energy infrastructure. And then there are what we call gold plated ways where a utility goes in and and jacks up the price for everything because they can charge it to their captive consumers. As we transition to renewables from fossil fuels in Virginia with the passage of the landmark of Virginia clean energy, clean energy act, you've seen the same, the same type of operations from dominion, you've seen gold plating of large projects like offshore wind, replacing the gold plating of nuclear or gas projects in the past.

Katherine Hansen 17:53

How do you think Dominions influence in politics will continue to affect the renewable energy market,

Brennan Gilmore 17:59

anytime dominion is allowed to set the terms of a policy, it's going to cause consumers to maximum that's their responsibility as an investor owned utility is to take care of their shareholders first. And so we will not have the least cost most effective energy, infrastructure and policy and consumer oriented policy in Virginia until our regulatory structure changes and dominion gets its hands out of our politics, we will continue to see their shareholders interest being placed first and foremost, that has to change. We have to look around the state of Virginia and say, what is the best for the most Virginians? What is the public service our utilities should be providing? And that needs to be our guiding principles when we write energy policy, not how do we maximize profit for dominion, that doesn't mean that a monopoly can't get a profit. Indeed, the traditional Best Practices regulatory system is a monopoly earns a fair profit, in turn, in turn for providing a public service. They're not meant to earn massive excessive profit at the hands of captive consumers, many of whom are struggling to make ends meet.

Katherine Hansen 19:07

Can you talk more about the proposal going to Senate vote this Tuesday that would ban Dominion from contributing to members of the General Assembly?

Brennan Gilmore 19:15

Yes, this is a proposal that has been brought before the General Assembly for many years now. As I mentioned, you had these veteran lawmakers who had always stood up for what was right and trying to get Dominions money out of politics. And these bills were soundly defeated every year. This year. It's a bipartisan bill. You have Republican lead where on the House side and Republican Senator Stewart on the Senate side, along with Senator chap, Peterson, and many other Democrats on the House side that are introducing this legislation and saying enough is enough. Electricity consumers in this state have suffered too long under this unjust system. And it needs to end now. So you know, I hope legislators do the right thing. Unfortunately, there are a lot of legislators who have taken hundreds and hundreds and 1000s of dollars from dominion and who have very cozy relationships with the utility and their top lobbyists. And they've been successful in blocking, blocking those bills from passing in previous years. I hope that doesn't happen again this year. But unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised. The good thing is we have elections in Virginia quite frequently, we have House elections and Senate elections next year, there's still the possibility that we'll have House elections this year as well under the new maps. But voters who are fed up with these common sense bills dying, have a chance to go in and elect and elect representatives who put their interests first and not theirs have a large monopoly utility.

Katherine Hansen 20:49

So in the event of this bill doesn't make it through this year, how do you see the fight to keep Dominion out of our politics progressing?

Brennan Gilmore 20:57

I think it's only building. You know, four years ago, you had three legislators that that did not take dominion money. Now you have well over a third of the General Assembly, who as a matter of principle says I was elected to regulate this utility not to take bribes from it. And so they don't take their money. Those numbers continue to grow, I think, you know, new candidates that are getting in, to, to to, to serve in the Virginia General Assembly, almost as a matter of principle and routine, say that they'll run on not taking those contributions. And as you get, you know, candidates that come into this office, that have those principles, you'll see you'll see the laws change as well. Virginia is an outlier. You know, the vast majority of states in the United States don't allow their utilities to contribute to to the, to their politicians, and it's high time that we catch up.

Katherine Hansen 21:56

comparing us to other states, do you think there should be a limit or regulation on political contributions or not at all?

Brennan Gilmore 22:05

Yes, I mean, I think Virginia's campaign finance system is wholly bankrupt and needs to be reformed completely, including caps. You know, we we are in a very broken system. Now, that doesn't allow for the best and fairest representation. There's a lot of structural change that needs to be done and needs to be done, you know, holistically and fairly, so it doesn't advantage one interest group or or corporation over the other. Unfortunately, we have not seen a lot a large appetite to get this done. It's it's always hard to pass campaign finance regulations, because you're asking the politicians that are have gotten into office and who have campaigned under the existing system to change it. But that said, we need to start somewhere. And there are bills, this year on caps, there's bills on ending the personal use of campaign finance, which is so absurd that we're still in a system. We're one of I think two or three states across the country that allows candidates to take political contributions and use them to go on vacation or buy, you know, new new clothes. And so we've got we've got a you know, at least address the low hanging fruits, and then look at more comprehensive reform that includes includes caps and getting regulated utility Monopoly money out of out of politics.

Katherine Hansen 23:29

This all very directly affects Virginia ratepayers and citizens. How can Virginia Citizens get more involved and educated in this process?

Brennan Gilmore 23:39

Well, I'm the executive director of Clean Virginia, and this is our mission. And we have a lot of resources on our website, www dot clean Virginia dot o RG. And first and foremost, yes, get informed, learn the issues. Some of these issues are very, very complicated, some are not complicated at all, some are very simple principle matters, like not taking money from the corporation that you have no choice and whether you whether you belong to or not. And, and then, you know, talk to your legislator across the Commonwealth of Virginia, when when voters talk to their representatives, they listen, and we have seen legislators on both sides of the aisle, listen to their constituents on this issue and change their position for a long time. This was just the way things were done in Richmond and there weren't a lot of people that said, I'm not going to take money from the utilities. Now there are in the single most important thing that folks can do is learn the issues and get in touch with their legislators and we've got toolkits on our website. We just had a large training for advocates last night. There's a real building and growing movement on these issues and everyone is more than welcome and encouraged to join it.

Nathan Moore 24:57

Brennan Gilmore is the executive director of Clean Virginia. Thanks to him and to journalist Peter Galuszka for joining us this week. Thanks as always, to our producer and editor extraordinare Katherine Hansen. My name is Nathan Moore and I'm the host of Bold Dominon. You can find us online at BoldDominon.org. And don't forget to subscribe. It's just a click away.