Episode 2: New gun legislation and a pro-gun blowback

In this episode of Bold Dominion: guns and gun policy.

On May 31st, 2019, a disgruntled city employee in Virginia Beach shot and killed twelve people in a mass shooting at a Virginia Beach municipal building.

Weeks later, Virginia’s Democratic governor Ralph Northam called a special summer session of the General Assembly -- specifically to consider new gun safety measures. But the Republican controlled Assembly voted to close that session within just a few minutes. No new gun laws passed.

Last November’s elections changed all that. With new Democratic majorities in both houses, Governor Northam vowed to reintroduce some of these gun safety measures.

But that has led to its own kind of blowback.

In this episode, we talk with Robert Zullo, editor of the Virginia Mercury, and Peter Galuszka, journalist based in the Richmond area.

Read the Transcript:

Nathan Moore  0:00  

This is Bold Dominion: an explainer for state politics in a changing Virginia. I'm Nathan Moore.

Unknown Speaker  0:08  

Well the results of Tuesday's election turn the Commonwealth blue for the first time in over two decades. Governor Northam announcing he'll reintroduce gun legislation now that the 'Dems' have the majority. 

Unknown Speaker  0:20  

Security was tight with metal detectors, drone restrictions, and a temporary ban on firearms on the Capitol grounds. Virginia's Governor had declared a state of emergency, hoping to avoid a repeat of the deadly protests in Charlottesville in 2017. A gun safety group canceled its own demonstration today after what it called "incredible threats to public safety."

Nathan Moore  0:41  

In this episode of Bold Dominion: guns and gun policy. And to talk about what's going on with gun policy in Virginia these days, we have to back up the clock a little bit... back to May 31st, 2019. A disgruntled city employee in Virginia Beach shot and killed 12 people in a mass shooting at a Virginia Beach municipal building. Some weeks later, Virginia's Democratic Governor, Ralph Northam, called a special summer session of the General Assembly, specifically to consider new gun safety measures. But the Republican-controlled assembly voted to close that session within just a few minutes, and no new gun laws passed. Last November's elections changed all that. With new Democratic majorities in both houses, Governor Northam vowed to reintroduce some of these gun safety measures. But that has led to its own kind of blowback. So called "Second Amendment Sanctuaries," also known as gun sanctuaries. More than 100 Virginia counties and cities have recently adopted resolutions to prohibit or impede the enforcement of gun control measures. Local sheriffs and local supervisors in these places say that gun safety laws violate the Second Amendment.

Peter Galuszka  1:46  

I talked to Philip Van Cleave who said- of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, which is a- an anti-regulation lobby.

Nathan Moore  1:53  

Peter Galuszka is a journalist based in the Richmond area.

Peter Galuszka  1:56  

-and he just says he wants absolutely no legislation that would in any way restrict someone who is doing something legally. If the person's not doing anything illegal, they should have their gun. I mean, and he wants no, absolutely no restrictions whatsoever.

Nathan Moore  2:15  

I mean, what's the- what's driving that?

Peter Galuszka  2:17  

It's sort of- there's several things driving this. And one of them is a reaction that kind of goes back from Donald Trump's victory in a lot of red states. It's a very much of a cultural war? What's incredible here is how it brings up vilification and all kinds of ugly things that go back, not just to Virginia's history, but to the history throughout the country.

Nathan Moore  2:40  

Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring has weighed in on these so called "gun sanctuary measures." He says that if the General Assembly passes new gun restrictions, they will be enforced, quote: "These resolutions have no legal force and they're just part of an effort by the gun lobby to stoke fear." Well, stoking fear seem to be part of the point last Monday, January 20th. Martin Luther King Jr. Day has become an annual Lobby Day in Virginia, when citizens roam the halls of the state office building and speak with lawmakers about their concerns. But this year, Lobby Day drew enough armed participants to take over a small country. Thousands of pro-gun activists descended on Richmond, many of them heavily armed, a lot dressed in militia gear. Several neo-Nazi and other far right groups had hoped that the event might spark a second Civil War. And Northern Virginia Democratic lawmaker Lee Carter spent the day in hiding after receiving several death threats. Virginia Mercury editor Robert Zullo was there.

Robert Zullo  3:35  

Well, it was right out front of our office. We're right on Main Street in downtown Richmond, just down the hill from the Capitol. So, Main Street was closed, a bunch of other surrounding streets around the Capitol were closed. We all got in very early, you know, expecting crowds and lines and it was- it was surreal to see, you know, Main Street in Richmond closed and, you know, heavily armed people just kind of strolling down the street. It all did end, you know, without incident. I think that's important to know. There was a lot of fear about what might happen at this thing. I, I am one of those people, though, who quibble with the notion that it was a peaceful rally. I mean, there's just something to me -- this is my opinion -- there's just something inherently not peaceful about toting that much weaponry around in public. I mean, these- a lot of guys look like soldiers dressed for battle. There were helmets, there was body armor. You know, there's tactical gear. And I think what you saw, I think what might have- a bit of nuance that might be kind of lost in all of this is, you know, you had- you essentially had two rallies. So you have the one that has happened every year on Lobby Day, and it was bigger than usual, because it's the first time that, you know, where serious gun legislation has a chance of passing that was inside the secure Capitol grounds where the Governor had a- had, you know, had banned weaponry. So there was- there was one rally inside, on the Capitol grounds. And then in the streets, around the Capitol, was where everyone was armed. Based on the people that our reporters talk to -- I wandered out there a few times during the course of the day -- and then reading a lot of the news coverage, there were quite a few people from out of state. I think the rally estimates are between 20 and 25,000 people were there. They were coming from as far as New York, Montana, you know, all over the southeast and the Midwest. So, to get that crowd, they were drawing people from a huge part of the United States.

Nathan Moore  5:31  

You wrote in Virginia Mercury this week about all the Second Amendment sanctuary movements around the state in- which is basically, you know, counties and localities that have decided they're not going to enforce any new gun legislation, at least that's what they say. And then at the rally, we saw there were a lot of people who were masked, a lot of people who were in violation of some of the state's laws, but we're not stopped. What was the story there?

Robert Zullo  5:55  

I did point out in a column this week that, you know, that two things- and in kind of the warm after glow of "Hey did this all end well?" and yes, we're all- we're all very relieved. Um, nothing happened-

Nathan Moore  6:06  

Nobody got murdered. Yeah.

Robert Zullo  6:07  

Well, yeah, that there was- there was no incident, especially with some of the rest of the white supremacists. I do, you know, I do want to point out that I think it is a little- it's not, it's not right to characterize all these people as militia types or white supremacist types or white nationalist types. I mean, there was, you know, I saw people of color there, there were women there, you know, although they, you know, they were in the minority. And I think that a lot of people are very sincere about believing in the meaning- what they think is the purpose and the meaning of the Second Amendment. Now, all that said, there were two state laws that were relevant to what was happening in the streets of downtown Richmond on Monday. One: there's a state law against wearing a mask and public, you know, with certain exceptions, none that would be relevant. There was one person charged, she was told by police to remove a bandana, and she didn't, and she was charged with a felony. She was the only person charged. And there were scores, if not hundreds of people, wearing masks and carrying weapons. And the other state law that's relevant here is there are restrictions in the city of Richmond, and other select Virginia localities, on the carrying of certain kinds of weapons. In this case, what was most relevant was semi-automatic rifles, that loaded semi automatic rifles with high capacity magazines. And just, wandering around the streets and looking at the coverage, you can see lots of those kinds of weapons. Now, there is an exemption in the law for people that have Virginia concealed carry permits. I do think that, you know, given this kind of attitude of defiance, the kind of "we will not comply" response -- which was on a bunch of signs at the rally -- I think it's worth asking if, you know, does the law mean anything if there are thousands of armed people who make it, you know, too dangerous to even broach the question of trying to enforce those laws? And that's what I was trying to point out in that column. I mean, I do think the police deserve some praise. We're all grateful that it came off, you know, the way it did without any kind of violence. But, I do think that there's something troubling in this whole movement. And I should say that I'm a gun owner myself. So, I'm not coming from a place where I think people shouldn't have guns at all.

Nathan Moore  8:23  

And honestly, very, very few people do come from that place. I mean, it's a, you know, kind of a straw man. The thing about the gun sanctuary movement, and that sort of- that same energy sort of infused much of what we saw on Monday in Richmond, it seems to contravene this notion of the Rule of Law that our- that our society, that our democracy is built on. What- what comes next from this? I mean...?

Robert Zullo  8:49  

I don't know. I mean I- frankly, I think it's just another sign that we have this kind of fracturing, you know, in our society and the- I wrote, you know, I wrote something earlier this month about, you know, what I called the "misinformation age," you know, we have access to, you know, all of humankind's knowledge on the internet, but it's also very easy to spread, you know, misinformation. I mean, we had out- I mean, I don't know of another, you know, better example than that we had Alex Jones driving this huge, what looked like a huge black armored vehicle around the streets of Richmond, you know, shouting at people through a PA system. I mean, it was wild. You know, people posing for pictures with him. And I think that uh, I think what a lot of people in this kind of Second Amendment movement believe, in fact, can't dissuade them, is that "Well, this is just the first step. We know what they're really trying to do. We know they're really trying to take our guns." And the fact of the matter is, there's nothing that is being proposed in this legislative session that doesn't exist in another state. And which hasn't found- which hasn't been found to be constitutional. The Red Flag Law for example, Florida has one, you know, passed under a Republican governor. And just survive, you know, survived a court challenge, I think last year. You know, there are reasonable things we can do to make- to make society safer from gun violence. And... but I do think that there is a sincere -- if incorrect -- belief amongst some of the people who might have showed up to the rally Monday that it's a- it's a slope to gun confiscation.

Nathan Moore  10:27  

Why- why are conservatives around the state, and especially, but not just, in the more rural areas- why are they so vociferously pushing for- for unlimited access to all manner of firearms?

Robert Zullo  10:38  

I think that, um...I mean, frankly, my opinion is that there was- there's been kind of this wedding of the gun rights movement with the firearms industry. It's good for the firearms industry to rile people up about this. They sell more weapons. A overwhelming proportion of the guns that are privately owned in the United States are owned by a very small percentage of people. So what that means is people that own guns own a lot of guns. They buy a lot of guns. They buy a lot of ammunition. They buy all this tactical gear that was on display on Monday. And I think when you have this kind of union between the firearms and associated industries and people who believe that it's constantly under threat, it's a- has kind of a multiplying effect. You know, I do think that the Democrats, you know, in proposing this legislation, they didn't really do themselves any favors with sticking in the assault weapons ban that was introduced. We were the first outlet to really nail down the Northam administration and [center their south law?], on what they were going to do with existing owners of these types of weapons. Whether you call them assault rifles, whether you call them, you know, what the- what the firearms enthusiasts would call modern sporting rifles. No one really knows how many there are, but they're surely thousands in Virginia. They're one of the most common- commonly owned, you know, firearms in America. And I think there was an information void for a long time that lingered on, you know, that they were going to make anyone who possessed them a felon. So there was some real concern on how- what they were going to do and I don't want to diminish that.

Nathan Moore  12:16  

Robert Zullo is the editor of the Virginia Mercury. Here's the thing though, that January 20th rally hasn't really changed the course of gun safety legislation in Virginia this year. That day, by mid-afternoon, the gun proponents had mostly dispersed, but in the days that followed, the General Assembly moved forward with several gun control measures. Things like universal background checks and a ban on assault rifles and a Red Flag Law. Again, Peter Galuszka:

Peter Galuszka  12:41  

If the idea was to intimidate, it didn't really work because the Democratic-held General Assembly has proceeded with this program of bills. The most significant that got through committee was the Red Flag bill, which would allow, under certain provisions, for someone to have his or her weapon taken away for, I think it's a 14-day period, if they're showing that they're a threat to themselves or others. And... so that's a- that's a pretty big bill, a number of states have it already. Plus there are- that- that's already pretty well on its way, I believe it was passed by the Senate, it's down on its way to the House where it will probably pass.

Nathan Moore  13:22  

Mhm. There were two or three other bills that have now made their way through some things like one gun purchase per month. What else is sort of on the docket?

Peter Galuszka  13:31  

Well, there are a bunch of bills that are still going through the thing is the- one is the one purchase per month bill. Another one would be to report stolen firearms within 24 hours that the owner discovers that they're either lost or stolen. Another one would be to forbid bills, preschools, daycare centers, and perhaps on the Capitol grounds. Some other things are still unclear, as far as I know, such as what to do about high-capacity magazines for rifles and that kind of stuff.

Nathan Moore  14:06  

Mhm. You know, these are bills that have been passed in a lot of other states and that enjoy majority support among- among voters in various surveys. Why is there such a sort of vociferous opposition to some of these?

Peter Galuszka  14:22  

Well, that's a great question because polls show that most Virginians -- I think it was a Christopher Newport University poll -- showed that 86 Virginians wants, you know, stricter gun controls. But there just seems to be -- we've talked about many times -- this sort of thought that, and mythology about, Virginia and the gun and protecting individual rights and, you know, thwarting over- overwhelming government power and all this kind of stuff. Also, a lot of Virginia is rural and people are, you know, used to guns and they hunt and they're not, you know, it's part of their culture. But somehow this has really expanded beyond, you know, where- where certain- certain laws that are considered moderate to modest in other states are considered utter tyranny by the government by a number in Virginia. 

Nathan Moore  15:14  

I mean, my cousin had- had hunting rifles and I tagged along once or twice. And, you know, that's a- that's a very different relationship with guns and, frankly, with nature than- than what these gun proponents are talking about. I mean, they're stockpiling you know, AR-15s, which are really not very good for hunting. I mean, what- what do we- what are we talking about here?

Peter Galuszka  15:34  

Well, that's the whole point. I mean, I grew up partly in the country too where, you know, my neighbors, actually, they're a little- few years older than I was when I was a young teenager. And they were they were so good at deer hunting, they actually used to reload their shells. I mean, they had a whole shed where they, they could- they knew exactly what they were doing. And so that's different. But I mean, I don't know why you need, you know, high-powered, you know, fast-firing weapons. I don't know, it's just part of this idea that there's this deep state that's coming after them. Or they're worried about home invasion, where they're- they're worried about, you know, intervening in a mass shooting and somehow being able to shoot out the assailant. I don't know. It's there's a lot of strange fantasies going on here.

Nathan Moore  16:23  

Peter Galuszka is a journalist who has covered Virginia politics for four decades. Thanks to him and also to Robert Zullo of the Virginia Mercury who spoke to us via Skype. Both Dominion is online at bolddominion.org. Go ahead and subscribe, you know you want to. We're a member of the Virginia Audio Collective, a group of podcasts based at WTJU in Charlottesville. I'll talk with you again in a couple of weeks here on Bold Dominion.